Comments on: On "On PHP" and version numbers http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/ Linux, PHP 5, Apache Consulting in San Antonio, TX Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:40:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Vidyut Luther http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-123 Vidyut Luther Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:27:44 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-123 Edward, I'm curious about your slow response times with PHP 5 vs PHP 4. 1. Where are these benchmarks? Secondly, no one can force you to use OOP, you can still write procedural code with PHP5, but if you were trying to write OO code in PHP4, you'll find PHP 5 as much better to write OO code in. Going back to your truck analogy, I think you can say that with PHP5, the option to have the camper is there, and the camper you do get if you choose buy it, is much better than the camper in the version before. But, I am curious to see the code and the benchmarks regarding the slow down between 4 and 5. Edward,
I’m curious about your slow response times with PHP 5 vs PHP 4.

1. Where are these benchmarks?

Secondly, no one can force you to use OOP, you can still write procedural code with PHP5, but if you were trying to write OO code in PHP4, you’ll find PHP 5 as much better to write OO code in. Going back to your truck analogy, I think you can say that with PHP5, the option to have the camper is there, and the camper you do get if you choose buy it, is much better than the camper in the version before.

But, I am curious to see the code and the benchmarks regarding the slow down between 4 and 5.

]]> By: Edward W http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-122 Edward W Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:17:40 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-122 Kishan, Your comparison between walking and cars is not even remotely related for reason I think even you see as obvious. I have written CMS systems, large repositories and extreme traffic sites all without a single line of OO code. All of these applications were easy to maintain by *others* as well as myself. You can never argue OO code is clean simply because it is OO code. It simply changes the spelling of code sOOp. Tracking down the purpose of a class function which has been removed in one place, re-added in another, then extended in another is utter hell. Some times I find myself wondering if OO coders are gleefully obfuscating their code on purpose. PHP5 eats up more RAM per thread than PHP4 and runs ALL code slower (albeit not nearly as slow as 5.0 did) in a direct side-by-side comparison. I once switched to PHP5 on one of my extreme traffic sites and instantly the server nearly locked up due to the extra (almost double!) RAM per thread and the added 10-50ms added to each transaction. These figures alone make PHP5 an anti-upgrade in my book. Upgrades should brings faster responses using less overhead, not more. For the select few 'true' new features in PHP5, it has become bloatware. If Zend wished to extend PHP into a Java wish-I-was, they should have created a new product instead of force everyone into their newfound bloatworld. I agree PHP5 has some much wanted features (XML handling and DB-independent functions), but to say OOP support is worth the added bloat is more accurately analogized with: Zend (with PHP5) Installed a camper on every truck and enlarged the engine to make up for lost mobility. Sure, it is now more powerful, but what if you never needed the camper? You now have a gas guzzler which goes the same speed as before. The camper could have always been offered as an add-on (aka: extension). Kishan,

Your comparison between walking and cars is not even remotely related for reason I think even you see as obvious.

I have written CMS systems, large repositories and extreme traffic sites all without a single line of OO code. All of these applications were easy to maintain by *others* as well as myself. You can never argue OO code is clean simply because it is OO code. It simply changes the spelling of code sOOp. Tracking down the purpose of a class function which has been removed in one place, re-added in another, then extended in another is utter hell. Some times I find myself wondering if OO coders are gleefully obfuscating their code on purpose.

PHP5 eats up more RAM per thread than PHP4 and runs ALL code slower (albeit not nearly as slow as 5.0 did) in a direct side-by-side comparison. I once switched to PHP5 on one of my extreme traffic sites and instantly the server nearly locked up due to the extra (almost double!) RAM per thread and the added 10-50ms added to each transaction. These figures alone make PHP5 an anti-upgrade in my book. Upgrades should brings faster responses using less overhead, not more. For the select few ‘true’ new features in PHP5, it has become bloatware. If Zend wished to extend PHP into a Java wish-I-was, they should have created a new product instead of force everyone into their newfound bloatworld.

I agree PHP5 has some much wanted features (XML handling and DB-independent functions), but to say OOP support is worth the added bloat is more accurately analogized with:

Zend (with PHP5) Installed a camper on every truck and enlarged the engine to make up for lost mobility. Sure, it is now more powerful, but what if you never needed the camper? You now have a gas guzzler which goes the same speed as before. The camper could have always been offered as an add-on (aka: extension).

]]> By: kishan http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-121 kishan Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:17:24 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-121 I think this article is rather silly. If your looking at the need to upgrade from a end users point of view and you have something working in php 4 or even 1, then why ever upgrade? I can only assume that matt or whomever it is that made such a statement is developing little ad hoc scripts as opposed to large scale business systems such as CRM's or ERP's, etc. PHP 5 is a massive increment to php from an OO point of view. If you devlope such large systems and your not utlising OO then your giveing your self a maintence nightmare amongst other things! Maybe for little scripts it makes little difference, but for large systems that have a library of 200+ classes, i think PHP 5 is considerably better, and If i want to provide my customers a more robust, efficiently maintained system, then PHP 5 is a no brainer! I mean sersiously with that attitude why did we ever invetnt cars, you can still move by walking! I think this article is rather silly. If your looking at the need to upgrade from a end users point of view and you have something working in php 4 or even 1, then why ever upgrade? I can only assume that matt or whomever it is that made such a statement is developing little ad hoc scripts as opposed to large scale business systems such as CRM’s or ERP’s, etc. PHP 5 is a massive increment to php from an OO point of view. If you devlope such large systems and your not utlising OO then your giveing your self a maintence nightmare amongst other things! Maybe for little scripts it makes little difference, but for large systems that have a library of 200+ classes, i think PHP 5 is considerably better, and If i want to provide my customers a more robust, efficiently maintained system, then PHP 5 is a no brainer! I mean sersiously with that attitude why did we ever invetnt cars, you can still move by walking!

]]> By: Vidyut Luther http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-120 Vidyut Luther Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:25:25 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-120 Thanks for the debugging marc :). 1 < 3 Thanks for the debugging marc :) .

1 < 3

]]> By: Marc Delisle http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-119 Marc Delisle Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:02:51 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-119 (Note: the comment was cut because I was using the less-than symbol !) (Note: the comment was cut because I was using the less-than symbol !)

]]> By: Marc Delisle http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-118 Marc Delisle Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:01:37 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-118 phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL before 5.0) will be the one that contains bug fixes; the 2.x series will have only security fixes. phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL before 5.0) will be the one that contains bug fixes; the 2.x series will have only security fixes.

]]> By: Marc Delisle http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-117 Marc Delisle Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:00:03 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-117 ... phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL … phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL

]]> By: The Big Blimey » Blog Archive » On Upgrading to PHP5 http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-115 The Big Blimey » Blog Archive » On Upgrading to PHP5 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:15:21 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-115 [...] Vid had a post yesterday where he writes about his concerns regarding the push to upgrade to PHP5. If you have not heard already, the PHP developers announced a couple of weeks ago they will be discontinuing support for PHP4. The reaction to this has been mixed, and I was perplexed at the developers who seem to be against the change. While most of the applications already work for PHP5, they just don’t understand the point of forcing people to upgrade. [...] [...] Vid had a post yesterday where he writes about his concerns regarding the push to upgrade to PHP5. If you have not heard already, the PHP developers announced a couple of weeks ago they will be discontinuing support for PHP4. The reaction to this has been mixed, and I was perplexed at the developers who seem to be against the change. While most of the applications already work for PHP5, they just don’t understand the point of forcing people to upgrade. [...]

]]> By: Vidyut Luther http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-116 Vidyut Luther Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:28:35 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-116 Marc, Looks like your comment got cut off, please try again? :). Marc,
Looks like your comment got cut off, please try again? :) .

]]> By: Marc Delisle http://thirdpartycode.com/2007/07/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-114 Marc Delisle Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:11:18 +0000 http://www.phpcult.com/blog/16/on-on-php-and-version-numbers/#comment-114 Hello Vidyut, Thanks for your comments about phpMyAdmin. As a developer of this software, I must add that there will be another reason why people would want to switch. phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL Hello Vidyut,
Thanks for your comments about phpMyAdmin. As a developer of this software, I must add that there will be another reason why people would want to switch.

phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL

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